God brings Peace? - Page 2

**Rev. Kelly** · #11 (**permalink**) 3rd September 2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by angeleyes

Couldn't have said it better. I've also had the experience of welcoming missionaries from certain faiths into my home and having a lovely visit, even praying with them. I particularly remember one time when I was really enjoying the company of two visitors until I mentioned that I was not interested in joining their faith. Within two minutes, they were heading out the door.

I almost laughed, Rev Kelly, when you asked why, if God wanted to spread peace, He would choose such abbrasive messengers? It does seem to be a little ironic, doesn't it?

I have to share something with you, though, that happened to me when I was in my mid-twenties and was part of a group that pushed evangelism (it may give you hope!). I was really into this particular Christian church and wanted my secretary to "see the light" and turn her life over to Jesus. After many months of frustration and a total lack of response on my secretary's part, a very strong thought occured to me: my secretary was much happier, loving and joyful than I was. This was quite problematic to me, since I was suppose to be the more loving and peaceful person due to my Christian faith!! This was a radical insight (one of those ah-ha deals) that hit me like a brick between my eyes. It changed my whole way of thinking - about myself, my beliefs, and God. Infact, it made me realize I had the whole thing wrong, and I left the church shortly after. Of course, my secretary had no clue that just being her wonderful self led me to seek a greater truth!

It's an experience I'm grateful for - it gives me just a little more patience with such folks (which I need, living in the Bible Belt).

Good post, btw!

Thank you, and glad to bring you a chuckle.

I agree with you, that no matter what our faith is we are better representatives if we live our lives like we believe and show others that we are happier because of them. It is a confusing message when the messanger is abrasive and seeming unhappy.

**Rev. Kelly** · #12 (**permalink**) 3rd September 2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tariki

I think what Lightkeeper said about seeking to be "nonjudgemental" is the key. Although not particularly a lover of the OT, there is a story there concerning David who, after being told of (apparently) another mans actions - resulting in his condemnation of them - it was revealed to him..."you are that man". More and more in my own life, as reality is revealed, all moments of judgement are followed by such a revelation...."you are that man" (or woman!!) We all share so much - good and bad - and its our choice whether we live in a world of division or unity.

"Mutual forgiveness of each vice opens the gates of paradise" (Blake)

And I bless that day it was revealed to me that the "you are that man" was not the harsh cry of a judgemental "God", but the first warm embrace of infinite compassion.

I am unfamiliar with this story, do you have a verse that I can look up and read it? It sounds like a great story.

**Rev. Kelly** · #13 (**permalink**) 3rd September 2008, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shaw-n

The fear of hell and the reward of heaven is the oldest carrot and stick trick in the world.
Sad it is that so many people fall for it.
Religion takes great spiritual truths and twists them into social control schemes.
Doesn't mean that there isn't some truth contained in the religions of our world.
They are full of truths, but their aims are another story.
I have met people like the opening post describes many times and it is just another sad story of the ignorance of humanity.

I have to say that this is my first experience with this type of negativity. I have welcomed all types of people into my home, and have usually said thank you for the lesson, but I do not want to join your church. They leave peacefully and a bit lighter on literature, just in case I change my mind, but are always polite. This instance was much different. I am sorry that you have had these types of experience.

Tonyamendola · #14 (**permalink**) 4th September 2008, 12:53 AM

We are told God is Love

So...............

LOVE bring peace

Thats of course is a Love not of this world - non conditional

Interesting about the OT and David
Indeed the other man is US and this is why we are asked to look with the higher vision upon all brothers
To look past the sins of flesh knowing that what God created remains perfect and pure despite what the eyes would show us
That is the faith in God - Not to believe the flesh but to believe LOVE

If God is Love then thats all there can be

Lightkeeper · #15 (**permalink**) 4th September 2008, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rev. Kelly

I am unfamiliar with this story, do you have a verse that I can look up and read it? It sounds like a great story.

The story is from 2Samuel 11:1 to 12:31.

**Rev. Kelly** · #16 (**permalink**) 4th September 2008, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

The story is from 2Samuel 11:1 to 12:31.

Thanks, I am off to my Bible now.

**angeleyes** · #17 (**permalink**) 6th September 2008, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tariki

I think what Lightkeeper said about seeking to be "nonjudgemental" is the key. Although not particularly a lover of the OT, there is a story there concerning David who, after being told of (apparently) another mans actions - resulting in his condemnation of them - it was revealed to him..."you are that man". More and more in my own life, as reality is revealed, all moments of judgement are followed by such a revelation...."you are that man" (or woman!!) We all share so much - good and bad - and its our choice whether we live in a world of division or unity.

"Mutual forgiveness of each vice opens the gates of paradise" (Blake)

And I bless that day it was revealed to me that the "you are that man" was not the harsh cry of a judgemental "God", but the first warm embrace of infinite compassion.

Awesome post, tariki.

Like Tonyamendola says, we ARE what we see in our brother. That truth has come home to me many, many times, to the point where it is uncanny. I do believe we only see a part of ourselves in everyone we meet and forgiveness is the way we heal ourselves. Thanks T & T!

tariki · #18 (**permalink**) 7th September 2008, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightkeeper

The story is from 2Samuel 11:1 to 12:31.

Oh the relief Lightkeeper when I saw this. Thanks! When I read Rev Kelly's request for the reference after a few days away from the forum I dreaded having to dip into the microscopic text of the only Bible Concordance available to me. My eyesight is not my strongest attribute! Thanks again.

Just reflecting upon the words of shaw-n, about carrots and sticks and suchlike.........seemed to bring a jumble of thoughts that revolved around our attempts to "justify" ourselves, to "earn" the carrot or whatever, all of which seems to me to lead inevitably to judgement of others who live in ways beyond and alien to our own mode of justifications and earning power! This is why Grace is for me the foundation - given not earned, and given "before the foundation of the world" so that, as Desmond Tutu once remarked...."nothing we can do can make God love us more, nothing we can do can make God love us less"

Without seeking to be evangelical for my own Pure Land faith, there are the words of Renyo......

Faith does not arise
Within oneself
The Entrusting Heart is itself
Given by the Other Power

..and of Saichi who speaks of Other Power...

Oh Saichi, will you speak to us of Other Power?
Yes, but there is neither Other Power nor Self-Power.
What is, is the graceful acceptance only

Anyway, once again thank you to Lightkeeper for the "other" power my "self" was so grateful for!!

aged hippy · #19 (**permalink**) 7th September 2008, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tariki

Oh the relief Lightkeeper when I saw this. Thanks! When I read Rev Kelly's request for the reference after a few days away from the forum I dreaded having to dip into the microscopic text of the only Bible Concordance available to me. My eyesight is not my strongest attribute! Thanks again.

If you go to: Ocean - World Religions Free Research Library you can either download ocean.exe which will install itself on your HD, or download the Ocean Library and burn it onto a CD.

The downloads are ~20Mb.

It is fully searchable.

Quote:

Ocean is a free collection of the World's Religious literature managed by a unique book-centered research engine. It contains over 1000 books of 10 world religions in English as well as collections in six other languages (French, Spanish, German, Russian, Dutch, and Portuguese). If you have a slow internet connection don't despair. We will happily mail you a CD at cost anywhere on the planet!

Our purpose in giving away Ocean is to promote amity among religions through greater understanding. It is our belief that the actual teachings of the various religions are not so different as some people would have us believe. True, religions have been used by power-hungry leaders as a tool to divide people. But eventually people will get tired of formulaes of hate and begin to ask "what do the scriptures really say?"

What they will find is shocking: the core message of all the world's religious writings is the same: ethical integrity, honesty, sincerity, compassion, tolerance and non-violence. No kidding! It's hard to accept this in a world filled with "religious" bigotry and hatred -- but just look for yourself!

Enjoy Ocean, share it freely. If you appreciate our project, help out by spreading the word. If you have a web-page, feel free to add the Ocean button which will direct people straight to this page.

Peace.

I wouldn't be without it.

Peace, Love, & Light

**Rev. Kelly** · #20 (**permalink**) 7th September 2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aged hippy

If you go to: Ocean - World Religions Free Research Library you can either download ocean.exe which will install itself on your HD, or download the Ocean Library and burn it onto a CD.

The downloads are ~20Mb.

It is fully searchable.

I wouldn't be without it.

Peace, Love, & Light

Thank you, Aged Hippy. This is a great tool. It will help out a ton with the new Interfaith Roundtable that I am establishing. Thanks so much!

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