http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...e1b68b258da7cd

Does the designer have to be more complex than the thing designed? Are a wing and an eye too complex to be the product of evolution?

Has Dawkins ever proved that there is no Creator?

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InterfaithForums.com-Where your ideas and beliefs count.

Only if the designer is pictured as being outside of creation. If the Creator and creation are one and the same, then that may not be the case.




No. There are more simplistic forms of each that do function.




How does one prove a negative? How would one go about proving that an entity doesn't exist somewhere in the universe or multi-verse?

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"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

There is not the slightest reason to suppose the designer is designed. While I do not believe the Intelligent Design argument for a second -- the designs simply aren't all that intelligent, when you get right down to it -- jumping into a infinite regress is simply a rhetorical device.

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Grassaf, Eolas

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here, EP. If there is a "Designer", and the argument used by some is that there must have been an "immoveable mover", to use Aquinas' terminology, that started creation, how can one argue that case and then turn around and state that there need not be cause and effect to create the "Designer"?

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"The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge."-- Einstein

"how can one argue that case and then turn around and state that there need not be cause and effect to create the "Designer"?"

Well said. Taking the issue out of the intellect and looking at the real world also informs us that, as far as we can tell, the entire Universe is based on cause-and-effect. Can anyone point to anything in the Universe that wasn't caused? Yet we are to believe that universal assumption doesn't apply to the "non-created Creator". Why? Because we can imagine it?

Just because our mind can conceive something doesn't mean it is true.