good reporting, cadero! I'm looking forward to all your future posts. Just curious, what kind of religious background do you have? I noticed that you commented on the lack of statues/decor, and wondered if you had a Catholic upbringing.

The sermon title was interesting - how did you find the talk?

An LSD family lived on our street for years and my daughter spent as much time over there as she did at our house. I learned alot about the Mormon faith through them.

Hi angeleyes,
I was a Catholic for 17 years and dabbled as a Jehovah Witness, a Baptist, a Morman, Judaism, Christian Scientist before settling on Patrickism.



There was some difficulty with the sermons but from what I gathered, I did find them interesting. The adult Bible study was a bit more confusing because of the difficulty of not being able to understand their belief system.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

It seems like there will be Part 2 to this thread.I have an appointment with some Mormon missionaries Thursday at 1:30 pm to further my understanding of their beliefs. If anyone has any questions they would like me to ask, you can post them here or you can PM me.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

the original thread?

I feel that all religions have good points and something to teach, and partly because of this, I don't look down on religions if I can help it. But I do have some disagreement with some of the things the Mormons do.

My wife's family were mormons. Her dad was kicked out of the mormon church, not because he smoked (which would have at least been understandable, if they gave him the opportunity to quit and he didn't), but because he drank COFFEE!! I flat out couldn't believe it, until I spoke to an elder at the local mormon church, and he confirmed that this was the reason the man was excommunicated. He tried to explain to me the reasoning, but it didn't stick, because it made no sense. The whole situation made for a rather unusual situation, since while my father in law was excommunicated, my mother in law was not, even though she stopped going to church.

Again, though I disagree with this, I have a number of friends who are mormons, and I've known very few who weren't good people.

I was watching a PBS Frontline special the other day and I was familiar with the fact that smoking, alchohol and cetain beverages were not allowed to a practicing baptised Moromon but I was surprised that anti-depressants were very common among this group.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

Me neither. I couldn't find the original report.

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD

A Day With The Missionaries

I had a 1:30 pm appointment today at the New Platz chapter of the Church of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints. I pulled into the parking lot to meet with the two Mormon missionaries. I introduced myself to Elder Prince who in turn referred me to Elder Christanson who removed his white cowboy hat to thrust his arm towards a hearty hand-shake.

We walked towards the church and Elder Christianson asked if I lived nearby and as I told him I only lived 5 miles from the church. I noticed Elder Prince padding down his pockets, looking for the keys to the church door.

“I hope one of you guys brought the keys, I didn’t bring my set,” I mentioned lightly

Elder Christianson laughed politely but when Elder Prince got to the door he seriously inquired if I was given a set of keys and I had to remind him that I was just joking. I excuse his naivity because I heard that my brand of humor took time to warm up to.

When we entered the church I noticed it was a little chilly and that it seemed to appear larger without all the congregation members assembled. I reminded Elder Prince of his promise to show me around the church after our discussion and he reaffirmed this agreement.

The meeting began with my history of the LDS Curch, I explained my previous encounters with the Mormons to give them an understanding of what I knew of their history and teachings. I mentioned the informative PBS Frontline documentary and was thankful that it offered me the opportunity to update my understanding.

I then interviewed them and asked questions about their ministry. Elder Prince originally resides in North Virgina and was assigned to the New Paltz district but was leaving in a month to go towards Saugerties. Elder Christanson was from Utah and was serving his two year term in areas like the Bronx and New Paltz and also admitted that he too would be relocated again. Aside from the field preaching work, I was interested in what occupied their remaining time and it was explained that the missionaries were assigned to where they were needed. Elder Prince admitted that recently he had helped three Mormon family members to move and that he had just finished painting a house for someone else. I asked for a breakdown of how the church assigns mssionaries and Elder Christianson explained how the globe is broken down to territories and that the church assigns members to go where they are needed.

Getting into the study I thought it would be practical to start from the beginning and we began a discussion of the Garden Of Eden account with Adam and Eve. It was important that I received a detailed understanding of this foundation and to see how the Mormons perceived Adam in the Biblical scheme of things. I was very surprised with their knowledge and teachings.

I had brought three Bibles with me to this meeting. The New World Translation, The Book Of Morman and my personal Bible Hello It’s Me: An Interview With God. When we started to go through scriptures in the book of Mormon, I had to plead patience because I was unfamiliar with the order of the particular books but Elder Christianson would shout out page numbers informing me that this wasn’t as efficiently accomplished with the Holy Bible. I was just thankful that is was easier. My copy of the New World Translations was quickly frowned upon and immediately replaced with a brand new church copy of the King James Version Bible and a promise from Prince Elder that I would be receiving my very own copy of this Bible at the end of the day. The only time that I shared my copy of Hello It’s Me: An Interview With GOD was when I expressed that the GOD that I conversed with also agreed that we were spiritual entities before arriving here which eventually led us into the discussion of sin and death.

Normally one would think that this would be an opportune time to debate my views and go into forum mode but I was pleasantly surprised when they had asked me my views on death and instead of an argument, a healthy exchange of ideas was offered. One of my disagreements was that if they believed that we were spiritual creatures before arriving to this physical existence, why couldn’t the possibility of multiple incarnations be accepted? Another teaching I proposed was that if the Mormons believed that we choose and plan for our time in this existence, why couldn’t we choose our own exit or the means in which we die to leave our physical existence. Well it didn’t take long for them to realize how novel of an idea this would be and they began to share their preferences of how they wanted to exit with the award having to go to Elder Prince for his most unique death preference of being pummeled to death at a soccer rally. We discussed suicide and sin and then it was right back to business.

I didn’t quite understand how the missionaries conducted these meetings but I can honestly admit that we hit it off and there was much interesting conversation and good natured laughing. From my remembrance of the Jehovah Witnesses and their home study courses, there was usually a planned program for understanding that required publications from their organization. Well the Mormons also incorporated study aids and the first one that we went through was the pamphlet entitled The Plan Of Salvation. It was a brief tract no longer than 22 pages with a glossary and questions for additional studies and both the Book Of Mormon and the KJV Bible were utilized. I tried to keep my comments down to a minimum but the questions that I did ask usually involved an understanding that was given but was also tagged as a further understanding and I was cautioned not to get to ahead of myself. One of the most interesting doctrines that I was introduced to was the Degrees Of Glory chart that they pointed out to me. I had to have them explain it over again just to make sure that I understood it and I was amazed that they had scriptural evidence for this when I requested it. We managed to finish the study with the exception of the last page before they had to call time.

All throughout the meeting I could not help but notice that Elder Prince kept looking at his watch. In an offering of politeness, I had tried to guage from him exactly how much time we had. He said that meetings really never went over one hour but I guess he made an exception for me because he told Elder Christianson that the appointment he had planned afterward had to be cancelled. They then proceeded to show me around the church and I got to see the baptism pool where they baptized members. Elder Christianson showed me the nursery and the library and even the Our Heritage book on Joseph Smith Jr. and the early history of the church that I was searching for. We walked out of the church to what was a beautiful sunny afternoon and I thanked both members for their time and rescheduled again in a month. I was encouraged to visit the Church again Sunday but prior comittments to Poughkeepsie’s Unitarian Universalist Church would not permit me. Elder Prince recovered a KJV Bible for me and when I asked how much I owed him for it, he hesitated briefly and told me it was a gift.

There is a certain conduct that these missionaries had that was quite obvious. Their appearance was neat, clean, their clothes were pressed but it was nice to see that when not representing the church they had their own sense of flair and uniquensess as indicated with Elder Christianson’s white cowboy hat which was taken off the moment we met and reapplied as soon as I left. In the dubious atmosphere that was shared by both of us I was quick to pick up on their suspiciousness and I instantly felt it important to dispel any cautions and concerns by adding humor to break the ice. During the meeting we were so comfortable with each other one would have believed we knew each other for years and I presume my sincerity to learn and understand their beliefs came through from my ability to listen and to curb my interruptions. Though I fully comprehended that they were there to preach the church’s teachings, I did not present myself as an easy subject. I asked questions when appropriate and thoroughly explained my beliefs when asked. I think some people would find it difficult to take any instruction from someone 20 years younger than them but I did not let age influence my attitude. The missionaries had a job to perform and I let them perform it to the best of their abilities and what abilities they had. Though the remembrance of certain scriptures were not a strong point for them (for example chapter and verse), they did remember enough of the scripture to save time looking it up and still apply it to study. They were well trained in the teachings of their doctrine and never wavered in their explanation. It wasn’t parroted, it was inherent. Overall I was impressed with their demeanor but one thing unnerved me at the end of the meeting when one of the Elders explained that he was going to be relocated and that he may not be one of the including Elders conducting the studies and I inquired about how the study was going to be continued without him. This Elder explained that the replacing missionary would be just as well versed in the doctrines and scriptures of the Church as they were. And I thought to myself, I guess that is all well and good but how well is this new missionary going to be informed of me?

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"There is one thing that organized religion is not qualified to teach and that is an individual's purpose."-GOD