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The I behind the I
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The non-unique Universe -
2nd July 2009, 03:39 PM
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/...907.0216v1.pdf
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The purpose of this paper is to elucidate, by means of concepts and
theorems drawn from mathematical logic, the conditions under which the
existence of a multiverse is a logical necessity in mathematical physics,
and the implications of Godel’s incompleteness theorem for theories of everything.
peace for all
love for all
bliss for all
...may your journey be graceful...
If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
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2nd July 2009, 04:20 PM
I haven't read it all yet, but if it is not falsifiable, it is "materialism in the gaps." A lot of what I have read (which isn't much) is over my head. I would suggest that the need to invoke a multiverse is rooted in the dichotomy between science’s pathological demand for objectivism (dualism) and reality.
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The invocation of a multiverse solves the problem of contingency by postulating that all the possible models physically exist.
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"May I always be the person my dogs think I am."
Last edited by Rolling_Stone; 2nd July 2009 at 04:36 PM.
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The I behind the I
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2nd July 2009, 04:24 PM
What does "materialism in the gaps" mean?
peace for all
love for all
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...may your journey be graceful...
If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
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2nd July 2009, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by modus_tollens
What does "materialism in the gaps" mean?
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It's like "God in the gaps."
Multiverse theory is interesting and does not impact my theology at all, but it does seem to be an attempt to make God unnecessary.
"May I always be the person my dogs think I am."
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The I behind the I
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2nd July 2009, 05:28 PM
I'm still not sure what you mean.
peace for all
love for all
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...may your journey be graceful...
If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
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2nd July 2009, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by modus_tollens
I'm still not sure what you mean. 
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As you know, many theists argue that God explains what science does not, the "God in the gaps" argument. "God did it."
Materialism assumes there is no God, so God couldn't have done what science does not understand. The "proper scientific explanation" is just waiting in the wings. This is what one physicist called "promissory materialism." I call it "materialism in the gaps" because unverifiable theories are contrived to make God unnecessary.
"May I always be the person my dogs think I am."
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2nd July 2009, 06:40 PM
Ah I see. Thanks for elucidating.
The paper is definitely not materialistic theory. It and the papers it references (by Max Tegmark in particular) posit that physical existence, in some parallel universe, is synonymous with mathematical existence. A structure, if you will, has mathematical existence, as defined in math, if and only if it is free of contradiction (essentially).
That can be a tough pill to swallow, of course. The question it solves, or at least appears to solve, is why these laws and not any others. This supposition, that PE=ME, allows all parallels to be governed by their own mathematical laws, whether they are probabilistic or deterministic.
There is an ultimate mathematical structure that would under this supposition literally be the ultimate universe which contains all parallels.
I view God to be that ultimate.
This view is not inconsistent with these ideas.
peace for all
love for all
bliss for all
...may your journey be graceful...
If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
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2nd July 2009, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by modus_tollens
Ah I see. Thanks for elucidating.
The paper is definitely not materialistic theory. It and the papers it references (by Max Tegmark in particular) posit that physical existence, in some parallel universe, is synonymous with mathematical existence. A structure, if you will, has mathematical existence, as defined in math, if and only if it is free of contradiction (essentially).
That can be a tough pill to swallow, of course. The question it solves, or at least appears to solve, is why these laws and not any others. This supposition, that PE=ME, allows all parallels to be governed by their own mathematical laws, whether they are probabilistic or deterministic.
There is an ultimate mathematical structure that would under this supposition literally be the ultimate universe which contains all parallels.
I view God to be that ultimate.
This view is not inconsistent with these ideas.
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Ah, this clarifies things. Thanks.
However, as I understand it, it fails to explain why anything at all, including mathematics. Maybe I should have called it, "mathematics in the gap." In any event, it sounds more like a philosophy than real science. Even so, it doesn't conflict with my theology at all.
"May I always be the person my dogs think I am."
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2nd July 2009, 07:49 PM
Why anything at all exists is a mystery to me.
peace for all
love for all
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...may your journey be graceful...
If anything is possible, then the statement, "anything is possible," is possibly false.
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2nd July 2009, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by modus_tollens
Why anything at all exists is a mystery to me.
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I think we have to take existence as brute fact, with or without God, but with this acceptance comes philosophical consequences that, IMO, science tries to avoid by postulating theories like multiple universes.
"May I always be the person my dogs think I am."
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