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Old 16th October 2006, 06:50 PM
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Our Origin

Quote:
Baby fossil adds to debate over our origins
3.3 million-year-old juvenile skeleton came from same species as ‘Lucy’

Lucy is probably the most famous fossil find in human evolutionary history — the partial skeleton of what was once a 3 1/2-foot-tall adult of an ape-man species, and named for a Beatles song that played over and over in camp the night of its 1974 discovery in Ethiopia.

Now Lucy has a young companion: Selam, the remains of a 3-year-old female of the same species, called Australopithecus afarensis. Selam lived some 3.3 million years ago, more than 100,000 years before Lucy.

"It's a pretty unbelievable discovery, to be honest," said Will Harcourt-Smith of the American Museum of Natural History in New York. "I think it's sensational."

He and others say the skeleton provides a trove of information, some of which will fuel a long-standing debate that "makes the Middle East look like a picnic," said human-origins expert Bernard Wood of George Washington University.

At issue: whether afarensis, which walked on two legs on the ground, could also climb trees easily and move around in them with agility. Selam hasn't settled the debate, but it does provide new evidence of climbing ability.

Selam's discovery in northeastern Ethiopia is reported in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature by Zeresenay Alemseged of the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany; Fred Spoor, professor of evolutionary anatomy at University College London, and others.

Rest of article here.

Does this change anything for you?
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Old 17th October 2006, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lightkeeper
Rest of article here.

Does this change anything for you?

To me evolution is the power of creation and creation to me is the Gods.

Of course alot of evolution these days I don't fully trust as there are alot of answers unanswered.

I do however support some traits and ideals of evolution that I find to be reasonable.
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Old 17th October 2006, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunicSage
Of course alot of evolution these days I don't fully trust as there are alot of answers unanswered.
What bothers you in particular?
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Old 17th October 2006, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiket
What bothers you in particular?

The many gaps in understanding evolution and people rushing the gun to put things set in stone without knowing all the regular facts.

For instance alot of people in studies of evolution want things to become academical facts through rushing without knowing all the necessary things to do so.

Then years later what was a fact changes because we find somthing that is contrary to formulate it as a fact.
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Old 17th October 2006, 11:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunicSage
The many gaps in understanding evolution and people rushing the gun to put things set in stone without knowing all the regular facts.

For instance alot of people in studies of evolution want things to become academical facts through rushing without knowing all the necessary things to do so.

Then years later what was a fact changes because we find somthing that is contrary to formulate it as a fact.
Facts shouldn't change, though hypotheses that scientists are certain of have of course been found inaccurate. Are there particular examples that have caught your attention?
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Old 18th October 2006, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiket
Facts shouldn't change, though hypotheses that scientists are certain of have of course been found inaccurate. Are there particular examples that have caught your attention?

Hmm there are a list of things in examples that I have a hard time excepting.

I will have to get back to you on that later with more refined posts.

I can name one off the bat and that is homosapiens as we know ourselves to be today evolved rather fast and instantly compared to other ancient primates discovered that took longer years of evolution.

In other words we showed up on the grid of evolution rather quickly compared to other species that gradually evolved.

Does that make sense?
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Last edited by RunicSage : 18th October 2006 at 06:48 AM.
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Old 18th October 2006, 09:14 PM
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Old 19th October 2006, 02:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunicSage
In other words we showed up on the grid of evolution rather quickly compared to other species that gradually evolved.

Does that make sense?
Yes. I'm not entirely too familiar with that idea however. I'll look into it. Some biologists (Stephen Gould springs to mind) propose that evolution can proceed in quick fits.

Please, feel free to post any concerns and I'll do my best to have a look (and I'll get back to you on the subject above as soon as).
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Old 19th October 2006, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaiket
Yes. I'm not entirely too familiar with that idea however. I'll look into it. Some biologists (Stephen Gould springs to mind) propose that evolution can proceed in quick fits.

Please, feel free to post any concerns and I'll do my best to have a look (and I'll get back to you on the subject above as soon as).


I have looked for a hour on what I was discussing about how human beings came on the grid of evolution too fast compared to ancient primates with no results on any search engine.

If you can find any article or persons who deal with this subject I would definately like to look at it. I remember watching a television show about it years ago ,but I don't remember what it was called.

On the television show I do remember how they said that humanity as we know it was a anomaly because we showed up out of nowhere compared to other ancient apes that existed over periods of time through evolution.


Other problems I have with main points of evolution is things happening by chance for I am not sure I can agree with such concepts.

To me complex systems have precise components working together to function. Any addition can not account for the origin of the system itself. In othewords the system itself would have to come fully integrated and formed.

I just don't know if I can believe in the concepts of random creation or chance.
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seldom a heart will sing with joy
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Today we drink tomorrow we die.

Be weary of the machine so you don't become one yourself.

Last edited by RunicSage : 19th October 2006 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 19th October 2006, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RunicSage
Other problems I have with main points of evolution is things happening by chance for I am not sure I can agree with such concepts.
Evolutionary theory does not suppose things happen by chance, the universe obeys the laws of physics and chemistry. Biologists do not dispute this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RunicSage
To me complex systems have precise components working together to function. Any addition can not account for the origin of the system itself. In othewords the system itself would have to come fully integrated and formed.
Sounds like the idea of irreducible complexity which is to say that take out a part of a system and the system won't work. Of course. There is no reason to suppose that such a thing could not evolve by Darwinian selection.
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