Bridgebuilder....I for one dont care for church...it is my thought that in the older days. Church I'am sure was a good thing...people did not live close together...they were busy all week..it took a great deal of work to just survive life...so to go at the end of the week and share and exchange storys..sociallize etc. I would think in that time it would have been a good thing...but my thoughts are...church would be everyday...all day...it is not a sunday or wed... thing..it is life..it is how we live how we treat others..it is the daily growth....we are around people each and everyday in the time we live..interaction is almost constant for many..and for those it is not..they still have radio or tv...most people are not disconnected from growth..and even those that might seem to us to be...are yet learning in those remote places filling there spot in the big picture of it all.....

I have really enjoyed your storys on the Quakers..and i so agree with how you felt about being aproached and rules not being consistant etc...

do you think you will go back...or do you think perhaps with some quiet time to think on it or in letting it go you may again return for there may be a reason outside what you think your there for...and perhaps it is like you said when talking the erge to speak seemed necessary and someone must have needed the words ...i will be curious to see what comes next...take care...much love

Hi BB -first of all, thanks for your posts on this. When you write, I feel I'm right there with you. And it seems as though you've have some pretty amazing experiences and insights.

I personally attended alot of groups and churches looking for that right "match," and though some were better "fits" than others, I found that there was no single source for me, other than the Spirit itself. I would have had the same reaction you had to the rules about the number of times a person is allowed to speak.

I remember the day I fell in love with A Course in Miracles - about 20 years ago; it was as though it had been written just for me. All my questions had been answered. Hallelujah! Yet towards the end of the book, Jesus says "Forget this world. Forget this Course. And come with empty hands unto your God." After reading that, my thinking is that nothing can take the place of our own experience, and more pointedly, our own spirit.

I regret having been absent from this thread and this forum for so long. This is a wonderful place Lightkeeper has created, yet I think the reason I spend less time here than elsewhere is actually due to the LACK of dysfunction, rather than the opposite, surprisingly enough. I tend to get very involved in complex threads in places where people are in states of extreme hurt or confusion, and I guess it's a good thing that so many people have it together on this forum!

Someone asked if I needed some time to think about my Quaker experience, and someone else wanted to know what I got from it. I most certainly have softened over time about what went wrong. I may even visit the Quaker church again (in fact, I realized somewhat later that I MUST visit one way or another since I have some library books from the church - a "coincidence", you think? ). I don't think I'm really a Quaker though.

I guess perhaps what I learned most of all is that this NEED from my childhood to BELONG to a church is a false need. I can find "spiritual fellowship" outside of "church". Indeed, I don't even need to be in the same physical location with others to be part of their spiritual community, as this forum demonstrates.

Since visiting the Quakers, I have explored other opportunities to meet with others who share some of my spiritual views in non-church settings. For example, I had a wonderful experience where I was invited to join two people from a popular "A New Earth" forum for dinner, one of whom actually was invited to appear on the webcast by Oprah due to his extremely thoughtful posts linking the Bible to concepts in Tolle's "A New Earth". We had an absolutely fascinating discussion for hours, and I actually met again with the latter individual in another group to discuss Tolle's book "The Power of Now". And that group led to more networking with other individuals in my area, who would like to create a spiritual discussion group closer to my home (the other meetings took place rather far from my home since we all had to drive to meet in a central location).

So it seems I am branching out into new types of spiritual interactions, not just online, but fully as the "real" person I am (not hiding behind a pseudonym). That actually takes a bit of courage on my part since some of what I post can be somewhat controversial. But I have found ways to let go of such fears, a significant step in my own spiritual progress in itself.

But as for the Quakers, I think I may have been a bit hard on them. I think they were actually more accepting than I seemed to believe in that last visit. I think perhaps only a few individuals did not resonate with what I had to say, as can happen in ANY group of people, as we each see God in an individual way. Or perhaps they just weren't accustomed to a visitor participating so enthusiastically in what I suspect has been a somewhat static group. Whatever the reason, I forgive them and I forgive myself too for over-reacting.

In truth, I think what really happened is I was actually somewhat embarrassed by how much I just let Spirit flow through me in that place. I didn't grow up in a charismatic church, where such experiences are common and accepted. And I think quite honestly, I was a bit taken aback by what occurred, as it was a rather profound experience, perhaps even more so now that I look back on it in retrospect. You need to understand that words do NOT normally come that easily to me when SPEAKING, just in WRITING.

When someone from the internet wanted to meet me and another individual due to our posts having an impact, I actually thought I might disappoint these people, that I might not be as eloquent as expected! But you know what, when I was together with these two individuals, the words just flowed for hours. I was simply me. BridgeBuilder. Not a pseudonym. Me. Straight from the heart. And not afraid to be BridgeBuilder in person.

Who am I when I write after all? Who is "BridgeBuilder" anyway? Could it be I'm simply me? And perhaps, just perhaps..."simply me" is MUCH, MUCH more than I can begin to imagine, to the point that perhaps I can begin to realize I Am "Simply All", and so are You.

Nice to visit this place again. It does have a wonderful energy, like coming in from the storm (if you could only know where I have been in the interim, you would understand why). Thank you for BEING in this place of bridges - no wonder a bridge builder feels at home.

Peace and Love,
BridgeBuilder

__________________
To build a bridge, it is not enough just to have an understanding of both sides of the river, although that is a challenge indeed. Only with the guidance of Love can one master the chasm in between.

What a warm start to my morning to read your post....and wow...you sound like you might need to breath and take a nap....I would love for there to be a group in my area to share as this site does......
keep us posted on how your wonderful encouters continue ...much love

Hi Bridgebuilder,

Thank you so much for sharing your Quaker experience with me. I have been attending a Tolle group in person for six months so I understand what you are saying. My Tolle group is my church.

It seems to me that the Quakers believe that spirit is in the stillness. I think the reason for waiting to respond to someone is to insure that your response is from stillness. From what I've learned in the Tolle group it's the stillness that holds the importance, even when you speak from stillness that is still ego. Ego gives Presence form and there is some loss in translation.

It sounds to me like you were experiencing a lot of spirit in that stillness. There are very few churches that practice stillness. Usually members are preached at. I don't remember any moments of stillness in any church I have attended. Even the prayers are out loud.

Our facilitator talks about welcoming opportunities for the ego to be wounded. He says thank you when someone criticizes him. He doesn't believe in killing ego off, but we can work with ego.

All in all it sounds like you had a very profound experience.

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InterfaithForums.com-Where your ideas and beliefs count.

Hi Lightkeeper,

In retrospect, there was a little bit of Ego, but a great deal of Spirit too. It's such a challenge to speak or post free from Ego, but I think many of us do our best in that endeavor.

I wanted to provide a little update. Guess who called me today? Someone from the Quaker church. She was not one of the people who advised me of "the rules" after the service. She said everyone wondered what had happened with me, that apparently someone tried to call but had the wrong number, and at least a couple thought I looked like I had left in tears.

We had a very open and honest talk about what happened, and she was rather dismayed. The Quakers do have customary practices, no doubt about that, which she reiterated, but she didn't feel that they had been properly explained, and she asked for advice on how to handle it better for newcomers. She was also surprised that I observed inconsistent observance of the practices, something she had not noticed.

Here is an excerpt from an email I sent to her:


The woman I spoke with really took my comments to heart, and I think they won't make the same mistake again with another newcomer. I told her that I did forgive everyone involved and did not hold it against them. Maybe my statement about putting spiritual expression in a box was a little strong, in retrospect, but I think she knew that I did honor her church's choice of spiritual format, even if it's not for me.

In peace,
BridgeBuilder

__________________
To build a bridge, it is not enough just to have an understanding of both sides of the river, although that is a challenge indeed. Only with the guidance of Love can one master the chasm in between.