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tariki..
"……………..”It was the Buddha’s aim not to give a ‘final’ speculative answer but to be free from all theories and to know, by experience……………he wanted not a third position lying between two extremes but a no-position that supersedes them both." And is this not the experts mind by reason that the FINAL position of no position transcends all possabilities? Zen's thrust is to periceive beyond mind isn't it? Which is the reason for mind breaking koans. At first the student searches thru any number of possabilites as answers to the problem until it's obviouse there are none and the mind trips out allowing for direct perception. Would also add that the experts mind (in the context we are discussing) is not a mind that is narrow in conceptualisations, it has transcended concept so is expert only to the expert as non conceptualisation cannot be taught. |
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Lightkeeper..
"Are we glorifying the "expert's mind?"" Not at all. Because mind is a collection of concepts which determine view and we are talking the conceptualess mind of the expert,( in this case zen) meaning what is there to glorify? i said it could not be taught, and it can't be but that is not to say that there is not a process of self discovery of it which can be taught. So it's back to the Buddha thing of experience for one's self. i find it VERY interesting that the word 'expert' seems to raise some lightly negative responses on this thread....i wonder why? Expert is someone who is experienced in his field. |
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Quote:
I get from this quote that the expert's mind is not as positive as the beginner's mind. In other words if one thinks they are Buddhalike and very zen, they aren't.
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That was a great post, tariki. I agree with everyone who's said that the beginner's mind is more open, more innocent, and hence more teachable. The so-called expert is the person who has "all the answers" or is simply unable to see things a different way.
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Lightkeeper...
"In other words if one thinks they are Buddhalike and very zen, they aren't." Exactly because even those would be concepts of the conceptualess, and zen is full of stories of beginners who have made that mistake However i don't see any right or wrong here, we each learn something from thinking about the meaning of the saying. For instance i am seeing the expert as a zen teacher and i think ( a guess) you are seeing a worldy expert. And our friend Suzuki doesn't specifiy. But when it comes to possabilities i think both the expert and the beginner would have to show respect for most women who can find a plethera of uses for a simple kitchen measuring cup ![]() |
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Does a true zen teacher see his or herself as an expert? Does a true zen teacher see his or herself as further along on a path? I think expert is egoic. I don't think the Self would recognize anyone as an expert.
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Lightkeeper...
"Does a true zen teacher see his or herself as an expert? Does a true zen teacher see his or herself as further along on a path? I think expert is egoic. I don't think the Self would recognize anyone as an expert." One without ego is free to act spontainiously even if others think it's ego, as being without ego he doesn't care what others think. A true zen teacher may write books using words like 'expert' and 'beginner' because he knows the readers are still stuck in conceptuality. A zen 'expert' does not communicate zen, he communicates ABOUT zen. No he may never call himself an expert but accepts the title 'master' and calls others 'master' The clue in the saying was the word 'possabilities' Possabilities are possabilities only when there is more then one answer which is why koans are given to which there is no answer other then direct perception which transcends all concept. A post or so back i mentioned i detected slight negative responses to the word 'expert" i find this interesting because the word carries a connotation for some...also interesting is the word 'master' which for some carries an eqauly negative connotation. It might be enlightening to check into the feelings about the words and why because negative OR positive connotation will color judgement. If the words master, expert and beginner are looked up in the dictionary the word beginner is as in novice. Expert or beginner? All things being equal i know who i would choose to teach me. |