In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, in the expert’s mind there are few. - SUZUKI-ROSHI

Who or what is considered a "beginners mind" and why are there many possibilities? Who or what is considered an "experts mind" and why are there only few possibilities? Wouldn't it seem to be the other way around?

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May your awareness be perfection

I agree with you. It would seem to be the other way around. Although the expert will also have a better grasp of what is not possible as well.

The meaning of this has to do with having an open mind vs. a closed or opinionated mind. The closed mind sees everything through its bias and stubbornly refuses to look at the possibilities whereas the beginners mind has no bias to cloud the possibilities. You can be quite learned on a subject or field and still have the beginners mind whereas you can be an "expert" on something but still be quite ignorant or even stupid.
There is no contradiction here.

A beginners mind has not yet learned to winnow out what doesn't apply to a circumstance. We all know how the mind is, all over the place.

An experts mind becomes expert by focus on principles applying to the circumstance.

The fewer the applied principles the more expert the mind.

It's really a commentary on that which is most basic ( the expert) from which all else can be predicated.

Example...aware, ( not two) aware of being aware ( now there are apparently two, that which is aware with awareness as an object of itself) from this comes many as thought.<-----the beginners mind.

I agree with Suzuki-Roshi, Shawn-N, Chippingaway and everyone who agree with us.

I wold like to add.

"In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, in the expert’s mind there are few." - SUZUKI-ROSHI

At the beginning of Journey chaos of thoughts dominate our minds,
everything seems to be an option and yet,
every option is so confusing.
It causes uncomfortable for Mind feelings to emerge
on the surface of it...
and fear grows.

Then some of us decides
to block those uncomfortable feelings
and some of us decides to explore.

Those who block unpleasant feelings,
afraid to look in the face of chaos.
They submit themselves to Fear.
They create a wall between chaos and themselves
foolishly thinking that,
their reason is surrounded by "order"
and therefore,
they have to "protect" that "order" from
disturbing chaos of thoughts.

They artificially cut options
creating the state of "wellbeing" withing themselves
calling themselves, "Experts".

Those humans reject to admit
that it is impossible to create anything solid and lasting
using Fear as a base
and they also,
get angry, if you don't recognize them as true experts,
and by doing it,
they expose the symptoms of
their growing illness,
shouting for help.

I believe,
everyone of those individuals
eventually realizes the differences
and becomes True Expert with Truly few possibilities.
But I also have this feeling
that sometimes it's, too late,
in the sense,
that the Realization
comes to their worn out minds
just a few seconds before death,
consequently, leaving them
only a few seconds
of True Joy of Life.
And that is very sad.
I feel sorry for them, False Experts.
Lets bless them

On another hand,
those of us, who is not afraid to look in the face of chaos have no choice but,
explore possibilities actively,
filter them thoroughly,
do this "dirty" work with their own hands,
take everything in
and without cutting unpleasant ends.

After years of work
those humans realize
that there are not many possibilities left,
only a few:
to stay healthy or ill,
to be "bad" or "good",
to feel like a worm or god.

But strangely enough,
with this realization their job isn't get easier.
Then they know who they truly are,
where they are going in their lives.
They entering the chapter with less possibilities
but way more responsibilities.
I'm happy for them,
True Experts,
lets bless them,
too.


A.P.

My thoughts are that eventhough it seems to be contradicting....when one sees the "beginners mind" as he that opens up to all posibilities..the "expert mind" knows only perfection.

He that is unconscious of who he is...is a victim to circumstances...but then something inside of him starts to stir...and he finds himself shortly after, on a path (the beginners mind). He discovers that he is not what or who he thought he was and that he has the power to create his expereince. After years of creating he comes to the awareness that there is really nothing to create...and that everything is in divine order as it is (the experts mind).

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May your awareness be perfection

I think the expert mind may be egoic. The journey would be to stay in or return to the beginner's mind where there are many possibilities.

I agree the beginner's mind is openness and the expert's mind is closed.

Jesus talks about being like a child. A child is filled with awe.

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I think the expert mind may be egoic. The journey would be to stay in or return to the beginner's mind where there are many possibilities.

I agree the beginner's mind is openness and the expert's mind is closed.

Jesus talks about being like a child. A child is filled with awe.

Good post LK...I agree with you!!!

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RevKathyV

http://www.myspace.com/divinelightinterfaith



www.divinelightinterfaithministry.com

I was just drifting around the forum yesterday and happened to see this thread and it just seemed to give my mind a nudge. It sent my memory back to my very first posting on a Buddhist forum, when I interrupted a profound discussion that was taking place between a couple of Zens, based upon Shunryu Suzuki’s book “Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind” from which I believe the original quote comes from. I remember at the time that I experienced just a little trepidation in wading in, as I had always found that book strangely boring and had never managed to get beyond page twenty. At the time I realised that I would either have to say just that or remain forever in chains, afraid to speak my mind! Well. I spoke it…………………….and my words, as you can imagine, went down like a lead balloon and I was in all probability dismissed by many on the forum to the Buddhist wastelands, though all were far too polite to say so! Anyway, I seem to be waffling.

For me, the “expert” mind is the mind of a forever-fixed definitive opinion. Opinions are not too bad in themselves but when we become stuck in them and they become unquestioned we seem to lose forever a form of childlike innocence that is always open to experience. This can be understood and explained by the simple way we learn and assimilate knowledge………………..We see an article in a newspaper - as an example - that tells us that a Penny Black stamp was sold at auction for two hundred pounds. “And how much is a Penny Black worth?” “Oh!” says the expert mind, “two hundred pounds!” A few days later we might read that a joined set of four Penny Black’s sold for a thousand pounds. Our answer to the question would then become something like “Oh, depends on whether they are single or in sets”. THEN, later again, we read that a Penny Black in mint condition sold for £500. Well, I won’t labour the point – I possibly already have! – but that’s how it goes. Eventually I suppose the one with “beginner’s mind” will say upon being asked the value, “show it to me” and await reality to strike!!

So knowledge and opinions are not wrong in themselves, and there is a true sense in which we need to seek and gain greater knowledge, but it just seems to me that it needs to be a path towards some sort of “dropping” of opinion (even “ego”?) and allowing Reality-as-is to Be. When the opinions become fixed they have the potential to create barriers between people.

This all seems to have affinities with the Middle Way of Buddhism, of which Thomas Merton said……………..”It was the Buddha’s aim not to give a ‘final’ speculative answer but to be free from all theories and to know, by experience……………he wanted not a third position lying between two extremes but a no-position that supersedes them both. This is the Middle Way”

Anyway, this is all my opinion………………….and I’m sticking to it!

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When the bird and the book disagree, always believe the bird.

Thank you for a really nice post...