Are we to include agnostics and non-theists in this arena? As a non-theist, I have found a certain amount of satisfaction in realizing that there are some questions that I'll probably never know the answer to, such as is/are there a deity/deities? What would be so wrong about saying "I don't know" if I really don't know? :confused:

Shalom,
Vern

The interesting thing about all these comments is that they focus on the individual. We would like to believe that we can change the race by changing one human at a time. This is a fallacy. We can no more achieve this feat than we can sweeten water by sweetening hydrogen and oxygen atoms.

statrei:>>The interesting thing about all these comments is that they focus on the individual. We would like to believe that we can change the race by changing one human at a time. This is a fallacy.<<

Who said anything about changing the race? On top of that, what about the likes of Jesus, Gandhi, MLK, etc., all of whom had major impacts on changing people's minds starting with one at a time?

Shalom,
Vern

Atheism best fits the evidence of the world as why see it, and for why there is so much evil in the world, and how it has come to pass that there are so incredibly many divergent beliefs about gods or the lack of them.


Sex is always more fund when you're not always worried about sinning (is wearing a condom bad? Should I be enjoying it THIS much?)

Atheism is a better explanation of why the sex drive is as strong as it is, too. (At least, better than imagining that God made it so strong just to test us.)

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

"Atheism best fits the evidence of the world as why see it, and for why there is so much evil in the world, and how it has come to pass that there are so incredibly many divergent beliefs about gods or the lack of them."

I'm confuse now!! Are we posting actual benefits or just our opinions of benefits, because to me this statement is a matter of opinion.

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RevKathyV

http://www.myspace.com/divinelightinterfaith



www.divinelightinterfaithministry.com

We're brainstorming. Much that comes up in brainstorming is opinion. The key is not to reject anything until you get to the analysis phase.

I keep repeating that brainstorming is about generating ideas: good ideas, wild ideas, outrageous ideas. Some will turn out to be right, some wrong. Some will do nothing more than show the way to another right idea.

But during brainstorming, the key is DON'T ANALYZE - GENERATE.

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evangelicalhumanist: Greek "eu"=good and "angelos"=messenger. Spreading the good news of Humanism.

From what i have read here it seems to me that perhaps we are confusing organized religion with Faith. You don't need to be an atheist to disagree with the hierarchies, dogma and every other thing that's wrong with organized religions. And you can be a member of any religion and still not have an ounce of Faith. Even atheists have faith. Faith that there is no G-d is still faith in something. So perhaps we can think about what the benefits of True atheism are and if such a thing even exists, and what are the cons of True Faith without the baggage of organized religion and dogma? Any ideas?

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We will meet today,
We will meet again tomorrow,
We will meet at the Source every moment,
We meet each other in all forms of life.
~Thich Nhat Hanh

Aye. Humanism stresses reliance on human initiative, freedom, freedom to speak, read, and think. It urges that we resolve or try to resolve problems by honest human effort not relying on magic or superstition (i.e. prayer or God).


Exactly. Atheism is not a creed. It has no commandments. Atheists can be liberals, libertarians, conservatives, free market capitalists, socialists, anarchists, and some have been totaliarians (Communists.)


That is historically incorrect. Nazi Germany was as totaliitarian as a state can get. Yet its founder Adolf Hitler was an admitted Christian. Nazis overturned the separation of church and state in Weimar Germany and made Christianity (Lutheran and Catholic) the official state religion of the Third Reich. Nazi Germany set aside part of workers incomes as a tax to either the Lutheran or Catholic churches. SS belt buckles had "Gott Mit Uns" along with a swastika. Fascist Italy, Ustasha Croatia, and Falangist Spain were totalitarian states with official Catholic Christian religion established.

The USSR and other Communist totalitarian states actually did have a religion. They had Marxist-Leninism or Maoism. These branches of Marxism had very specific creeds or belief systems. Unbelivers in the Marxist Faith were killed, tortured, or sent to Gulags. They called themselves Atheist because Marx was an Atheism. But I have been to Moscow before the fall of the USSR. I have also seen newsreels from Moscow and Beijing. They show thousands of people lined up venerating (worshipping) under 20 metre high portraits of Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao. How different is that from worshipping imaginary gods? Lenin's body was embalmed and put in an altar of worship in Red Square. I saw people queued for a kilometre to just pass by dead Lenin's body reverently. I claim that Communism is a religion and it does have its gods. It is pseudo-Atheism. It suppressed Christian religions because they wanted their own Communst religion to prevail and ensure obedience. Hitler managed the same power over his people by endorsing Christianity, while Jews, Gypsies, and Atheists to death camps.

Oliver Cromwell, King Philip of Spain, William Brewster and William Bradford of the Plymouth Colony, John Calvin of Geneva, Ayatollah Khumayni, and the Saudi Royal Family are all extremely religious god believers who ruled some of the worst totalitarian states in history. There are others that I could list. There is lots of evidence to counter your assertion that totalitarian leaders suppress religion. They actually use religion as a tool of crowd control. They only suppress religions other than their own.

Amergin

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Militant Agnostic: I don't know, and neither do you. There is no evidence of God so belief is optional.